Old Bus Tickets

Maidstone & District Motor Services – Setright Speed

M&D ss_lr                From the Sidney R G Page collection

I don’t know what other types of ticket the "Mud & Dirt" may have issued, but when I worked for them in the mid 60s as a relief bus cleaner, covering rest days at Tenterden half the week and getting a long lie-in the other half before catching the first bus to Ashford at 6.20am to do rest day cover there, there was a chap who inhabited a small shed in a corner of the Tenterden bus garage who had taught himself pretty much all there was to know about Setright Speed ticket machines – I don’t doubt that he had originally gone on a course of some sort, but by the time I worked there he would have qualified to act as the instructor – and Setright Speed ticket machines from all over the M&D system that needed attention were sent to him to deal with.
I can’t remember if he also dealt with machines from the East Kent company as well, but they probably had someone of their own to deal with theirs, or sent them to the Setright works.
Although I swept out all the buses at Tenterden or Ashford every day or night that I was on duty, and also emptied the used ticket boxes and burned the contents in the incinerator at the back of the garage, I’m blowed if I can remember whether they were all Setrights, or if any other types of ticket were in use.

Copy contributed by Tony Adams

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24/06/12 – 15:40

I was very interested to read about the individual mending the ticket machines. When I drove for Southend Corporation there was such a man there too. He had a little workshop but usually if you wanted to see him he left a notice on his door Back Shortly. This was displayed so often that he gained the nickname Back Shortly.

Philip Carlton

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28/06/12 – 07:59

How interesting, Tony, to learn of your working at both Tenterden and Ashford – a pretty mammoth journey between the two depots. It’s just possible that we briefly came across each other, since I was shown round Tenterden and its environs in August 1967 by the then District Superintendent, Arthur Grist. Did you ever know him, by any chance?
In addition to the Setright, M&D used Almex machines on its OMO services, and although you might have forgotten Almex, you would certainly cleaned lots of the tickets up, since Almex machines were prevalent in both Tenterden and Ashford at the time you worked for M&D. I don’t think there is an Almex posting on this site, but the machines, which were positioned next to the driver, had little slides on them to set the fare and other details, and the ticket itself was a small, square one, almost but not quite cut from a roll as the driver issued it by pushing a lever at the side of the machine. I have a vague feeling M&D’s were yellow, but I can’t swear to it.

Roy Burke

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03/07/12 – 14:54

M&D (and subsidiary Hastings Tramways) like many operators went from bell punch ticketing to Setrights via the intermediate stage of ‘Insert Setright’ machines – the latter were phased out from 1949 onwards. (M&D’s second Setright Speed machine, S 01, is now in my collection.)
M&D (and neighbour East Kent) specified the trip number / stage number style of machine shown here (which meant that on the longest routes, fare stages 1 to 31 were repeated.)
M&D were, as Roy says, one of the early purchasers of Almex machines (in an era when buying anything not British could be viewed with some suspicion) – from photographs I’ve seen, it looks as though they did so from the early 1960s. Almex machines seem to have been used on OMO services, conductors continued to use Setrights as far as I know. And yes, Almex standard ticket rolls were yellow (although some operators used other colours for reasons unknown.)
(And I’ll have to try and find an Almex ticket or two that are interesting enough to offer for posting on here – they probably get thought about as ‘too modern to be of interest’ although some of the machines are now getting on for 50 years old!)
As M&D were quicker than some companies to convert to OMO, this led to a surplus of Setrights, and many passed second hand to City of Oxford in the mid 60s (S01 came to me via an Oxford source but never got decimalised) – possibly to replace either short range Setright (issuing tickets only up to 1 shilling) or TIM machines which had both outgrown their more limited fare range in an age of inflation.
The "chap in a small shed" is an interesting way of doing things – most large companies had one or two ‘Setright mechanics’(or similar job title) usually at head office or central works.
An article in ‘Classic Bus’ some time in the last couple of years mentioned that M&D had a number of people doing jobs that didn’t officially exist – people were still on the books as a driver or conductor but did a regular, specialised job – maybe this chap was on that basis.

Jon

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The pink ticket is interesting. M&D used green rolls for many years but other colours were used by kerbside conductors (at Hastings I think), changed daily to prevent fiddling. East Kent did this too.
M&D Setrights: these could print stages and trips from 1 to 32, although the very last batches of machines had the more common 00-99 arrangement.
M&D stages incidentally, had the appearance of being chaotic as they did not run in sequence. For example, stages on route 98 (Tonbridge, Higham Wood – Tunbridge Wells, Ramslye) in 1964, ran: 17 – 15 – 14 – 13 – 12 – 10 – 9 – 8 – 7 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 31 – 3 – 2 – 1 – 30 – 29 – 15 – 25 – 28 – 26. There were further stage numbers (including 32) for "additional single fares". On joint routes with Southdown, conductors had to remember the Southdown stages too which were different for any given stage but equally chaotically applied. The basic idea, however, was that a particular stage would always have the same number irrespective of route.
Almexes were introduced by M&D in November 1955 at Tenterden and Gravesend (three machines in total for OMO drivers). Apart from the West Yorkshire Road Car who tried an Almex for one day (9th May 1955), M&D were the first UK user. They also tried electric drive Setrights for OMO, but a decision to standardise on the Almex was made quite early on, and they became a major and very long-lived user. This may be why the Swedish Almex company decided to settle in Edenbridge in the 1950s.
Rolls were supplied by Almex for many years; the earliest were a sort of cream, later yellow, white with preprinted conditions in yellow, and at the end, with the M&D logo in green. M&D also used green rolls on the Invictaway coach services.
A Setright mechanic or two were employed by many of the larger firms and maintenance was usually quite a systematic matter. For example, at Ribble, a central service history card was kept for each machine; ribbons were replaced at 50,000 tickets (at the depot) and the machine returned to the works for a complete overhaul at the 500,000 tickets mark. Some operators (Wilts & Dorset, Lincolnshire RCC for example) even had the "service interval" shown on a little brass plate on the machine as a reminder to the depot clerks.
Some of the larger firms also maintained machines for smaller operators; the only example I can think of offhand, is that of the Clynog & Tefor Motor Co. who had their machines looked after by Crosville at Chester.

DRH – Transport Ticket Society

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29/07/12 – 10:55

Hi Roy, I shouldn’t think I ever met you or the District Superintendent because as I was rest day relief for the regular cleaners, most of my time at Tenterden was on nights. On the days that I worked at the M&D garage at Ashford I caught the first bus out of Tenterden, which took about an hour to reach Ashford. However, I was travelling in the warm on the company’s time. Ashford garage at that time had a large number of Bristol double deck buses with AEC engines. The engineering staff told me that as Bristol was a nationalised company, they were not allowed to sell complete buses to non-nationalised operators, hence the AEC engines – though I have no idea where these would have been fitted. That no doubt also explains the Dennis LoLine. Tucked away round the back of the M&D shed at Ashford at that time was an old snowplough, though it couldn’t be used when it was really needed, because the vehicle that it fitted had been scrapped long ago.

Tony Adams

Crosville – Setright Speed

Crosville_lr

Here is a standard Setright Speed from Crosville Motor Services, about 1962 I think. Green printing on a cream-coloured paper. I have never quite understood what was the purpose of the various formats and boxes printed on the reverse of different operators’ Setright Speed ticket rolls. I can only say that I don’t ever remember a conductor using them in any way, shape or form. The ticket was issued during a holiday to Llandudno. From the small fare, it almost certainly represents a journey between Llandudno town centre (Trinity Square) and the West Shore, where we were staying. There were three possible routes – M19 (Conway Morfa) – operated by Bristol Lodekkas, and leaving town via Madoc Street, Lloyd Street, Deganwy Avenue, Gloddaeth Avenue, Great Ormes Road and Bryniau Road; M20 (Llanrwst) – operated by single deckers – usually SC4LKs, but occasionally a half-cab L5G, taking the same route as the M19; and finally the local M95 (Maesdu and Deganwy) – invariably an SC4LK, running via Trinity Road, Dyffryn Road, Alexandra Road and Bryniau Road.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Ford

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The punch squares on the reverse were only for transfers and little used but are explained in the following Chief Inspector’s instruction:
"Instructions Relating to the Issue of Through Return Tickets where a Change of Vehicle is Required
1. The Conductor will issue the ticket in the normal way but in addition punch it with the cancellation punch in "No 1" (back of ticket) according to the direction of travel in order to indicate to the Conductor of the vehicle on which the passenger completes his journey that the ticket is a through ticket.
2. When the passenger tenders the ticket to the Conductor on the second vehicle on which he completes the journey the Conductor, after having satisfied himself that the ticket is valid for the journey, will punch it with the cancellation punch in "No 2" (back of ticket).
3. When the passenger tenders a RETURN ticket to the Conductor on commencement of the return journey the same procedure will apply as in (1) and (2) above. In addition the Conductor will punch the ticket with the cancellation punch in the appropriate date of the day.
4. When a passenger tenders a Return Ticket on the vehicle on which he is COMPLETING his RETURN journey, it should be noted that the date of the completing journey should be the same as the date "PUNCHED" by the Conductor dealing with the first part of the passenger’s RETURN journey and finally cancel the ticket through the machine in the usual way."

Mike Grant

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16/05/12 – 09:00

Was there any ticket left by the time all of these holes had been punched in it?

David Todd

Todmorden Corporation – Setright Speed

Todmorden Setright

My uncle and his family lived in Todmorden from the mid 1950′s for a few years and our family would now and again go to visit for tea – as you did. This involved catching a Halifax J.O.C. Regent III or CVG6 from Stump Cross to Hebden Bridge on the 48/49 service, then a fine T.J.O.C. PD2 to Todmorden, and another one on the Cross Lee service to Ferney Lee. Then a few hours later, we’d do it all again in reverse order. A wonderful day out. I don’t remember much of the tea, but I remember the bus rides! Then the tickets were still Bell Punch rack type tickets – the only ones I personally ever encountered. Unfortunately I hadn’t started to retain bus tickets at that early stage in my life, so these later Setright Speeds are the only ones I possess.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

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18/04/12 – 07:05

Ah, those visits to relations. When I was little every weekend we were either visiting them, or they were visiting us – my dads parents, or three lots of uncles/aunts/cousins. I have written about the three-stage trip to my grandparents in Hucknall. The other regulars were in different parts of Nottingham – one of which involved the Mapperley route 31. In the early 50s this was always operated by Daimler CVD6s, which were unusual in the AEC dominated NCT fleet. I remember just one occasion when we went to visit my dad’s cousin in Grantham. I was grievously disappointed when the bus turned out not to be the melodious Trent crash-gearbox Regent I expected, but a Lincolnshire Bristol K5G on the joint service.

Stephen Ford

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23/04/12 – 15:56

I always recall that the ticket number on TJOC Setright tickets comprised four digits whereas tickets of most other operators I have seen had only three digits.

David Slater

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25/04/12 – 09:28

If I’m not mistaken Midland Red’s Setright ticket numbers also had four digits but I can’t think of any others that did.

Alan Hall

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25/04/12 – 12:06

The 4-digit serial number was something many operators wanted but Setrights seem to have been reluctant to supply. The reason seems to have been that the 4-digit serial number mechanism was inherently less reliable.
Midland Red was by the far the biggest user; also Walsall Corporation, Eastbourne Corporation were two other 4-digit users.
Rather more unusual on the Todmorden tickets was the machine number appearing where "PENCE" bar usually appeared. The two examples illustrated are from machines 03 and 12.

DRH – Transport Ticket Society

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26/04/12 – 11:52

Of course I should have remembered about Walsall’s tickets as I spent many happy days travelling on their trolleybuses in the last few years of their operation.

Alan Hall